a delegation of IAS officers representing “Indian Civil and Administrative Service (Central) Association” called on the Union minister of state in PMO Dr Jitendra Singh last week and discussed with him various issues related to their “working conditions”. The delegation also submitted a written memorandum to the minister. The delegation led by the association's honorary secretary Sanjay Bhoosreddy raised a number of issues. Their demands include the following:
1. The service period required to be put in before going on deputation to the Centre may be reduced to seven years from the present nine years.
2. Certain facilities provided to an IAS officer in the state should also be extended during their Central deputation.
3. Vehicles may be provided to all the deputy secretaries and directors irrespective of their seniority when they are on deputation to the Central Secretariat.
4. When they are on deputation to the Centre, their children should automatically be given admission in the Sanskriti School. Otherwise they feel discouraged to come to Delhi because of the possible disruption in the education of children.
5. There should be parity in pay scales and it was hoped that 7th Pay Commission would consider the existing anomalies.
Minister Singh said, he would direct the department of personnel and training (DoPT), the cadre controlling authority of the IAS, to carefully evaluate each and every suggestion made by the senior IAS officers and prepare a note based on it.
It is only in an underdeveloped country like India that govt officers demand official vehicles attached to them, and the vehicles are utilized mainly for family purposes.In devoloped countries even ministers do not get such perquisites.Our forwardlooking PM should have courage to end this medeaval practice forever.Only then the common man will feel the change in the culture of bureaucracy.The officers should feel like servants of people and not their rulers, for true democracy to prosper.
ReplyDeleteIf you give peanuts you will get only monkeys.
DeleteNowadays servants are better off than government servent. Become a government servent you will know and feel it.
DeleteThe demands will hold good for all Civil Servants coming on deputation under CSS to Delhi. Same facilities should be given to all and not only to IAS babus. The IAS lobby has reserved some good quarters at all levels for themselves in Delhi in the form of Tenure Pool. An IAS and a non-IAS recruited through the same exam (batch mates) working in the same Ministry and same Department at the same level will draw different salaries. IAS draws more by virtue of being an IAS. Now IAS wants facilities in Delhi which they enjoyed in States. All Central Services have been asking these facilities in field since time immemorial. But the IAS lobby scuttles every effort of non-IAS officers. Provide same salary, same facilities to all posted under CSS at similar level first. If the IAS has its way they will want to live the lifestyle of medieval kings, modern dictators & monarchs. IAS officers still think they British era ICS and bosses and not servants. Time to abolish this outdated Service called IAS as it has become a burden on the nation and its people.
ReplyDeleteThese co-ordination functions could be performed by any one who is holding the post of JS / AS Secy. Need not be only IAS as it is the responsibility of the specific post not the cadre. Wrt police, para-military they have good IPS heirarchy, they do not need some-one to control.
DeleteIAS has important and primary role in district administration, which IAS has ignored for glamorous posts. Today large cities like Mumbai, Bangalore etc., are headed by a single IAS commissioner who is responsible for all the works like get thousands of pot-holes restored, garbage collection etc.,. A single person at helm, however super-efficient he / she may be, is not able to monitor the works of his departments properly leading to sever public in-convenience. Why IAS get in to every ministry, PSUs instead more no of them can work in district admin.
Compare it with other departments like telephone, railways, banks etc., which had increased they deployed more senior level (say GM level) officers in places which were headed by lower level(Manager) a decade ago. More IAS officers with-in a district / corporation though dilutes the powers, it makes expectations more realistic and would give oppurtunity for IAS officers to deliver credible results.
Who WANTS them in Delhi? Let them stay wherever they are and SERVE for a change.
ReplyDeleteOn the question of the different trades the IAS is doing, there is a list of at least 7 unique roles this generalist service plays, for which its officers are trained, and the like of which there is no equivalent in the specialized services.
ReplyDeleteThe IAS is entrusted with these 7 unique roles:
a. To protect the internal unity and integrity of the country through its overall control over the paramilitary forces, even when insurgents and naxalites threaten to tear the country apart;
b. To ensure the law and order of a locality or region through its overall control over the police forces, even when local politicians wish to appeal to communal feelings to get what they want;
c. To provide overall coordination of the ministries and departments at the union and state levels and ensure policies are integrated and streamlined, so that each part play their proper specified roles for the good of the whole;
d. To provide overall coordination of the services both military and civilian, so that the needs of all specialists are taken into consideration when service policies are made, and ensure thereby the formulation of policies not skewed in favour of this or that specialized service;
e. To act as liaison officers between the union and state governments on the one hand, and among the states on the other, on all federal-state and interstate relationships, so that problems may be amicably and diplomatically settled despite all conflicting wants and interests;
f. To supervise the various ministries and departments in their capacities as union secretaries, or state principal secretaries, by coordinating all specialized energies and efforts together and present a coherent picture to the political masters for their deliberation;
g. To act as mediators balancing the public sector needs with private sector wants by bringing all stakeholders together and including all their inputs.
As the generalist service not belonging to any particular area of specialization, who is trained to see the forest where others see the trees, trained to be the steel-frame connecting all the parts of the building together, the IAS is uniquely tasked for these. And these duties can be properly fulfilled if the salaries, perks and privileges, and the authorities granted to them, are in sync with the enormous responsibilities they are presently burdened with.
It is therefore not surprising at all that the IAS should be considered the first among equals, as Sardar Patel's steel-frame of Indian administration - a primus that must, inevitably, reflect in their pay structures too ...
This IAS officer has been claiming that there are 7 unique roles IAS as a generalist service is playing. He is posting this comment repeatedly in every discussion on babus of india. Its time we discuss this comment and see if he is right.
ReplyDeleteClaim - “On the question of the different trades the IAS is doing, there is a list of at least 7 unique roles this generalist service plays, for which its officers are trained, and the like of which there is no equivalent in the specialized services.”
Are IAS officers trained to head all departments? Lack of any specialized knowledge doesn’t mean having knowledge about everything. The truth is IAS officers are not fit for anything. They neither have specialized domain knowledge nor management/administrative capability. If they are so good at administration, then why is India in this deep shit even after 67 years of independence. They are experts only in manipulations, deceit and unholy/immoral machinations. They beat politicians handsdown in these negative characters.
Claim – “The IAS is entrusted with these 7 unique roles:
a. To protect the internal unity and integrity of the country through its overall control over the paramilitary forces, even when insurgents and naxalites threaten to tear the country apart”
What the IAS does is divide and rule as did the imperial British civil servants. The IAS sitting in Delhi and heading various Ministries, including the Home Ministry, do not allow the paramilitary forces to do their job properly. The IAS babus sit on files relating to purchase of arms/ammunitions/materials required by the paramilitary forces while the security forces keep losing their lives in the service of the nation. These IAS babus without any ground experience sit on judgment as to what type of gun/vehicle is required for the security forces. When the paramilitary forces fight with their lives to prevent insurgents and naxalites from tearing this country apart, the IAS babus will be enjoying in their AC rooms and golf and other Gymkhana clubs sipping bear/whisky/wine and waiting to steal anything available from the spoils of the war between paramilitary forces and insurgents/naxalites. So please do not make such tall and irrelevant claims once again Mr. IAS babu.
Claim – “b. To ensure the law and order of a locality or region through its overall control over the police forces, even when local politicians wish to appeal to communal feelings to get what they want”
ReplyDeleteLaw and order is controlled by the police for your information. The only reason why the law and order breaks in a locality/region is because of involvement of politicians through the IAS babus (read Collectors/DM/DC/Sub Collectors/SDM/etc). Let the police do their job properly. Bring in police reforms. You IAS babus do not allow police reforms to kick in because of the fear of losing your hold on the police. You IAS babus (in the name of politicians) manipulate the police and public and create havoc. You instigate communal hatred through your policy of divide and rule. Politicians take the complete blame and police/public face the consequences but you get the spoils of war. Wah IAS babu wah !!!. Who signed the order suspending Durga Shakti Nagpal? Abolish IAS and you can have a better law and order in the country.
Claim – “c. To provide overall coordination of the ministries and departments at the union and state levels and ensure policies are integrated and streamlined, so that each part play their proper specified roles for the good of the whole”
Overall coordination is already being done by PMO, Ministers, MOS, Cabinet Secretariat and DOPT. Why do you want further overall coordination in every department, wing, unit? And what made you think you are qualified for the job? We all know how coordinated the Ministries and departments are in India. You are required to take 30 permissions to start an industry. What coordination are you talking about. And why is the poverty still at 30%, unemployment raising every day, poor health & public sanitation, illiteracy, etc in India when the IAS babus have been coordinating for the last 67 years after independence. Actually in the name of coordination you stall everything to prove your hegemony. You IAS babus will not allow any Ministry/Department to function independently/properly. You always see what can be gained out of any Ministry/Department for your own consumption. What policies are integrated/streamlined because of your efforts in India so far? Only thing that is integrated/streamlined in India because of IAS babus is corruption, inefficiency, hegemony and confusion. See coal scam, 2G scam and what not. IAS lobby do not allow any Ministry or Department to function well.
Claim – “d. To provide overall coordination of the services both military and civilian, so that the needs of all specialists are taken into consideration when service policies are made, and ensure thereby the formulation of policies not skewed in favour of this or that specialized service”
ReplyDeleteThis is complete non sense. Actually IAS ensures that all policies are skewed in their favour. You IAS babus sit in the Ministry of Defence and play havoc with the safety and security of this country. Every gain made by the armed forces over the past 67 years was compromised by the Politician-IAS lobby. IAS babus sleep over the bodies of our martyrs. The military protects the country with their lives but IAS decides what the army needs, what arms and ammunitions are to be brought. All the defence scams were the brainchild of the IAS babus. Through the DoPT the IAS lobby makes highly skewed and discriminatory policies for everybody. Ask any Army officer, he will tell you how the IAS is compromising India’s safety and security.
Claim – “e. To act as liaison officers between the union and state governments on the one hand, and among the states on the other, on all federal-state and interstate relationships, so that problems may be amicably and diplomatically settled despite all conflicting wants and interests”
Yes IAS does this function and the results are there for all to see. The feelings of communalism, regionalism, casteism, linguism, chauvinism, class bias and all divisive ‘isms’ are at their peak in India. So this is what IAS achieved by their so called liaison, amicable and diplomatic settlements/talents. This is a very clear indication that IAS is outdated and out of time and place and a big reason to abolish it.
Claim – “f. To supervise the various ministries and departments in their capacities as union secretaries, or state principal secretaries, by coordinating all specialized energies and efforts together and present a coherent picture to the political masters for their deliberation”
Yes IAS does this function also and the results are again there for all of us to see. We all know what coherent picture the IAS babus present to their political masters. IAS babus never gain a fair and frank advise to their political masters. These babus are only interested in their postings and earnings. The IAS babus coordinate their energies and efforts together in promoting themselves to the detriment of all other Services, armed forces and the country.
Claim – “g. To act as mediators balancing the public sector needs with private sector wants by bringing all stakeholders together and including all their inputs.”
ReplyDeleteYes IAS babus act as mediators between the public and private sectors. And this is the biggest reason for the institutionalized corruption in India. All the bigger corruption cases like coal scam, 2G spectrum scam, Saradha scam, fodder scam, Commonwealth Games scam, Hawala scam, mining scam, Bofors scam, etc are because of this mediation by IAS officers. Eliminate their mediation India will prosper well.
Claim – “As the generalist service not belonging to any particular area of specialization, who is trained to see the forest where others see the trees, trained to be the steel-frame connecting all the parts of the building together, the IAS is uniquely tasked for these. And these duties can be properly fulfilled if the salaries, perks and privileges, and the authorities granted to them, are in sync with the enormous responsibilities they are presently burdened with. It is therefore not surprising at all that the IAS should be considered the first among equals, as Sardar Patel's steel-frame of Indian administration - a primus that must, inevitably, reflect in their pay structures too”
Actually where the others see trees IAS sees gold but not forests there. The IAS babus will immediately loot the trees and make it a barren land. Yes IAS is acting as steel frame in preventing reforms and development in the country. Instead of connecting all the parts they are dividing country into pieces by their illegal, immoral, half-knowledge and arrogant policies/actions. Enormous responsibilities are actually not burdened on IAS. They take credit for everything. They want enormous power but not responsibilities. If we go by the responsibilities, IAS babus should get the lowest salaries among all civil services. IAS is primus not by the will and wish of the Constitution or the people but by their own greed. So its high time IAS is abolished and the country is saved.
when they ask facilities, do they remind the minister that they get seperate accommodation in Delhi when they come for deputation at DS/Director level and all other Central services will have to wait as there is a seperate pool for them and this wait can go very long. what do they say about this apartheid policy in proving housing facilities
ReplyDeleteManagement skills of IAS officers are evident at the time of each and every crisis. Uttarakhand, Kashmir floods, army had to help. Army officers proved better managers.At the time of Mumbai attack, home secretary of Maharashtra was in Taj. At the time when police were bravely trying to block terrorists with lathis, IAS home secretary was shaking with fear. When naxals attacked in Orrisa, collector hid in servant quarters.When real leadership is needed, IAS officers are nowhere to be found.They come out of hiding to rule over army officers and police when normal conditions are restored.
ReplyDeleteso much noise everywhere with the same refrain complaining "the IAS is this, the IAS is that, their officers are cruel, evil, incompetent, or worse" (perhaps someone will go for the 'lunatic' bin next?).
ReplyDeletegood to know you follow my comments elsewhere ... perhaps its a good thing an incompetent brat who cannot clear the IAS and so, finding the grapes are sour, now has a forum here to spill his entrails out.
best way to deal with your depressions, keep going.
in any case, let's refute the arguments on their turn:
//Are IAS officers trained to head all departments?//
= definitely. what do u think the word "generalist" means?
//Lack of any specialized knowledge doesn’t mean having knowledge about everything//.
= r u expecting the generalist to do the specialist job? did u think the IAS is the panacea for curing all ills? administrators coordinate specialists and come up with solutions that see beyond a single department, a single problem, a single sector. they are only as good as the spikes of the wheel they hold.
//The truth is IAS officers are not fit for anything.//
= which is another way of saying the toppers of the most competitive examination in the world are not good at any damn thing.
//They neither have specialized domain knowledge nor management/administrative capability//.
= do not confuse them to be specialists, who is supposed to know everything about something; and the IAS, who knows everything about something.
//If they are so good at administration, then why is India in this deep shit even after 67 years of independence?//
= what, IAS officers are the only officers in the country? they do not make laws or policies but what the political bosses wants; and they give their advises to the government by pooling together the expertise provided by the experts. yet somehow the politicians who decide and the specialists who provide are not responsible? u think too highly of the IAS to think they can do anything, they are not gods u know!
//They are experts only in manipulations, deceit and unholy/immoral machinations. They beat politicians handsdown//
= ad hominem. if u want hard data, Corruption Perceptions' Index 2009 for India have ranked the judiciary, police and the revenue the most corrupt institutions, in that order. and politicians? even above the judiciary. so which of these do u come from?
//What the IAS does is divide and rule as did the imperial British civil servants//
= do u see many indias instead of one? do u see any part of the country breaking off? if not, what's the complaint again?
//The IAS sitting in Delhi and heading various Ministries, including the Home Ministry, do not allow the paramilitary forces to do their job properly.//
= which job? paramilitaries are reserved forces, used only in times of emergencies the less they are needed, it means the better the nation is governed.
//When the paramilitary forces fight with their lives to prevent insurgents and naxalites from tearing this country apart//
= take AFSPA, intd. in 1958 as temporary measures to replace civilian rule till insurgents are rooted out. 60 years later, what do we have? 60insurgents instead of 2/3 at the time it was first introduced! and u call that a success - their human rights' records, the amount of distrust caused, alienation of the populace, so on and so forth? u must be using a very unusual performance index!
//the IAS babus will be enjoying in their AC rooms and golf and other Gymkhana clubs//
= lol, i just love this. have u visited a military/paramilitary cantonment campus?
//So please do not make such tall and irrelevant claims once again Mr. IAS babu.//
= too bad u failed to be one!
Very well said!
Delete//Law and order is controlled by the police for your information.//
ReplyDelete= where did u get ur education, again? ever wonder why SDMs and DMs are called executive magistrates? think man, think!
//Let the police do their job properly. Bring in police reforms. You IAS babus do not allow police reforms to kick in because of the fear of losing your hold on the police//.
= on the contrary, wherever police commissionerate systems are in place, police abuse and crimes have risen - be it delhi, mumbai, jaipur or any other commissionerate. why do u think that is? and u r ready to just give the police free rein?!
//Abolish IAS and you can have a better law and order in the country.//
= abolish IAS, and u will a dozen Indias, untrammelled police brutality, unprecedented political
power, and complete breakdown of administrative machinery in a country as diverse and as plural as India (unless u want to adopt Chinese model).
u'd have to form another generalist service again, call it by whatever name, to replace the IAS - an old wine in a new bottle. sometimes i wish this happens so one can say "i told u so!" to u disgruntled lot, just cos u cannot clear the exam!
continue on this tirade and ur almighty mania, and u might actually push the best and brightest from joining this noblest of service. what happens to the country then? who will administer? second-rates like u? lol ...
//Overall coordination is already being done by PMO, Ministers, MOS, Cabinet Secretariat and DOPT//
= and who do u think are the secretaries who man these posts? some special guardians dropped down from the netherworld? its ias officers (of course now u will explode ur energies into decrying the IAS again; feel free, go ahead and vent ur anger) ...
//You IAS babus will not allow any Ministry/Department to function independently/properly.//
= nothing but falsehoods. no IAS officer is chained to a ministry, whereas all specialists have vested interests in whatever departments they are in since they spend most of their lives there. no wonder nobody wants the IAS to snoop around and pull the rug off to see what u guys have been hiding in the last 10/15years!
//What policies are integrated/streamlined because of your efforts in India so far?//
= ok let me get this straight. if a policy succeeds, credit goes to everyone but the IAS despite being at the helm; and if a policy fails, damn the IAS! is it? talk about double standards!
//corruption, inefficiency, hegemony and confusion. See coal scam, 2G scam and what not//
= i suppose that's why judiciary and police are so incorruptible! :P
//The military protects the country with their lives but IAS decides what the army needs, what arms and ammunitions are to be brought. All the defence scams were the brainchild of the IAS babus.//
= why do u think our neighbours have dictatorships while India still persists with democracy? is the military kept in check by magic? or is it just by sheer happenstance that India never has a military coup? think again man, think!
//Ask any Army officer, he will tell you how the IAS is compromising India’s safety and security.//
= what is the best excuse a scoundrel can make so he can remove the irksome guard who keeps checking to see if they fall in line? again, think hard!
//The feelings of communalism, regionalism, casteism, linguism, chauvinism, class bias and all divisive ‘isms’ are at their peak in India//.
ReplyDelete= look at it this way: be happy u have JUST THESE instead of communal clashes every fortnight; instead of persistent demands of independence from the north and north-east and south and central india and violence committed in their name; instead of religious riots and clashes making headlines every week or so.
as someone said, "IAS-centered bureaucracy is the worst form of bureaucracy for India - after every other forms".
rest of the claims on the next points are too childish to be responded to; so i'll just ignore them (though 90% of ur posts can just be ignored on the grounds they are the reprobate grunts and gnaws of a failed career).
//All the bigger corruption cases like coal scam, 2G spectrum scam, Saradha scam, fodder scam, Commonwealth Games scam, Hawala scam, mining scam, Bofors scam, etc are because of this mediation by IAS officers.//
= on the contrary, who do u think are whistle-blowers for these scams? foreigners? perhaps the IRS officers? lol. who was the CAG who did all these, again?
and after all these services, this is the thanksgiving we get: IAS officers are involved!
//The IAS babus will immediately loot the trees and make it a barren land//.
= if this were true, i wonder why after 60years the country continues to thrive and prosper? not so barren after all!
//Enormous responsibilities are actually not burdened on IAS//
= haha, i just love this. IAS officers are not burdened with any enormous responsibility - yet somehow they are wrong for everything happening with the country? so ur noxious nauseauting voluminous tirades are because of --- who again? talk about barking up the wrong tree!
//So its high time IAS is abolished and the country is saved.//
= i sure hope you are not a chinese-sympathizer waiting for the entire Indian edifice to crumble by attacking it from within? take away the steel-frame and see the foundations fall and the country into a thousand pieces! which enemy of India will not be happy to see that happen?
//Uttarakhand, Kashmir floods, army had to help. //
= what do u think these guys are there for - to just enjoy living in their cantonments shut off from the world? secondary duties of the army and paramilitary are for these purposes, my friend!
//Army officers proved better managers.//
= well, let them handle a civilian rather than military cadre, then we'll talk!
//At the time when police were bravely trying to block terrorists with lathis, IAS home secretary was shaking with fear. //
= u think the responsibility of the home secretary is to carry a gun and join the cavalry?
//When real leadership is needed, IAS officers are nowhere to be found.//
= is that the reason IAS officers risk their lives working in NE India, naxalite areas and other places ---- although it is not their responsibility to put their neck in the line? don't confuse them to be soldiers, man!
as i read through the comments, from the very bad to the worse, i have made the following observations:
ReplyDelete1. The IAS apparently gets the blame for everything wrong with the country and nothing to its credit. This sees the IAS as something like a superhuman organization that can do everything - yet it is blamed because it does nothing.
2. It is the case rather that everyone hates the IAS because nobody wants anyone to inspect and monitor them.
- what will prevent the police from acting bruttally, and free to mint millions on its own without any oversight? the IAS of course! so, away with the IAS for interfering in everything!
- what will prevent the army from dictating military policies in delhi, from exercising control over civilians, even from having a coup? why, the IAS. so away with the IAS for their reckless interferences!
- what will prevent the specialists and provincial services from exercising unrestricted control over their own departments and sectors without any overseer to check and balance them? why, the IAS! so do away with this generalist service who isn't one of us and doesn't know any of us!
- what prevents politicians from organizing riots and conniving with organized crimes, from nepotism and cryonism and every other political crime in the book? the IAS! so do away with this needless service, since after all we are a democracy!!
Patel must be weeping in his grave and the Chinese must be waiting impatiently with glee!
Vehicle facility is requested for all officers of Deputy Secretary/Director level irrespective of service joining central deputation. This would definitely improve efficiency in view of fact that maximum ground work/file noting are done at this level only. they are working for very long hours ( more than 60 hrs a week instead of 40 hours in field officers) . What other services should demand is fair share in JS and above postings for which there are different set of rules for IAS and other Central services.
ReplyDeleteIf you see forest but don't recognize the trees, you are more likely to get lost my friend rather than taking the country anywhere.
ReplyDeleteYes IAS sees only forests and what they can get out of forests. They are bothered about the fruits from forests but not about the forests and trees themselves. Its the job of Indian Forest Service to grow trees and it the right of IAS to enjoy the fruits and shade. Its the job of IFS to nurture the forests and it is the right of IAS to enjoy and use the forests for entertainment. Its the job of IFS to build forest guest houses and the right of IAS to enjoy in these guest houses with their families (including extended families). But IFS will not be allowed to head the Forest Department, its IAS post. Because IFS guys are narrow-minded as they see only trees and animals but not forests. IAS are gods they can see forests as a whole and only they know how the country gains from these forests. Wah.. what an arrogant IAS babu is this fellow.
Deletesuch laughable metaphors i'm not sure u know how irrelevant they are, particularly when u confuse it with literals lol ...
Delete//Its the job of IFS to nurture the forests//
= do u mean this statement literally or figuratively? lol ... assuming u mean figuratively, the IFS is not a generalist service, so why do u end up assigning the task of a generalist (tending the forest as a whole) to specialists (tending the trees)?
oh let me get this straight: u hate the IAS, yet u want their job! is it?
// But IFS will not be allowed to head the Forest Department, its IAS post. //
= yes, and why? because the needs of society, of development, long-term and short-term, local and regional and outside, all these must be balanced against ecological protection (and IFS officers, being specialists, are trained as technical experts for ecological protection and preservation). these other variables must be taken into account when answering forest-related issues, so we need other experts apart from IFS officers to see the needs from other perspectives.
and to coordinate all these experts - that's what the generalist service called the IAS are for! a department after all is like a multinational corporation with a generalist manager who coordinates the specialist managers of sales, production, commercials, transport, law, etc together for the corporate's benefit.
// Because IFS guys are narrow-minded as they see only trees and animals but not forests.//
= again, wrong. it has nothing to do with their narrow/broad mindedness. on the contrary they are specialists trained to see the ecological aspect and not other aspects, that is why (unless u wish to make IFS another generalist service?)
// IAS are gods they can see forests as a whole and only they know how the country gains from these forests. //
= u think too highly of them! not so my fren, they are simply generalist officers trained to see the forests. the specialist knows more about the trees, the parts, the bricks - the generalist sees the forest, the whole, the entire building. its simply a case of common but differentiated responsibility, nothing divine or mysterious about it!
This is sheer arrogance on this fellow. IFS officers are not scientists or forsters to study and plant trees and nurture them. IFS officers are trained not just in the ecological aspects but also the livelihoods that depend on them, pollution control, climate change, economy, growth, role of forests and environment in nation building. IFS tends to forests as a whole but not limited to trees as you claimed. IFS officers know about the forest and environment laws, they protect trees and animals, provide livelihood to people dependent on forests and tribals living in forests. In a way IFS are generalists in maintaining forests and protecting environment. IAS officers just head the forest department without knowing the difference between a tiger and a lion, a tree and a plant, a tribal and a smuggler. How will they have a broad understanding of forests without knowing anything. This is non sense. This is sheer arrogance on the part of this IAS fellow. You IAS guys only know how to protect smugglers of forest produce, how to manipulate tribals, how to grab their lands and livelihoods to cosy up to your political bosses. You are a gangrene in the Indian administrative setup. The earlier we sever this part of administration the better it will do to this country.
DeleteI hate IAS as a lobby but not IAS officers individually. I have my relatives in IAS. I dont want IAS or their job for your information. I want it to be abolished. Because it doesnt have a place in modern India. We hated imperialistic British as a whole because of what they did to our country as a group but individually Jawarlal Nehru was a friend of Mountbatten. Its not a battle between individuals. Its a battle between systems/ideas - right (India, democracy, non-IAS, equality, sovereignty) versus wrong (Imperial British, dictatorship, inequality, hegemony, IAS). Ultimately right will prevail. So please go on and continue your fight till you are annihilated completely. I like your fighting spirit though eventhough its for a losing cause. By the way are you posted in Archives or Animal Husbandry as you seem to be very disgruntled and annoyed. You may consider it punishment posting but the relevant specialists will work happily because it is their field of work. They have overall view of it and interest in it.
Delete// IFS officers are trained not just in the ecological aspects but also the livelihoods that depend on them, pollution control, climate change, economy, growth, role of forests and environment in nation building. //
Delete= so ur answer to removing the IAS is to make the specialists even more generalists? isn't it sufficient to have one generalist? the environment is so complex that it requires many types of specialists, not just one, to study it. insteading of generalizing the forestry task of the IFS, what we need is perhaps to split this service into such things like: Indian Forest Managment Service, Indian Ecological Protection Service, Indian Agroforestry Service, so on and so forth ... if their duties are overstretched, they will lose their area of expertise and become another generalist service (albeit within the more limited domain of forest-related issues). that's what we do not: sufficient to have one generalist service, and ensure the rest are proper specialists, not quasi-generalist quasi-specialists ...
//In a way IFS are generalists in maintaining forests and protecting environment.//
= its not their job to be so. IFS was created to be a specialist service and should either remain that or be abolished to be replaced with many other types of specialists, since our understanding of the forest have been so sophisticated a single expert will not do ...
no doubt we need a generalist service to synergize and coordinate all these specialization together: and for this we already have the IAS. u do not need a mini-IAS so to speak ...
//You IAS guys only know how to protect smugglers of forest produce, how to manipulate tribals, how to grab their lands and livelihoods to cosy up to your political bosses.//
= lol. u sure have a lot of hatred to vent against us don't u? too bad ur not a politician, u'd have done a good job in the art of deception and deceit! :P
Mr.IAS babu and other babus, do not escalate your personal hatred with each other as rivalry between the Services as such. Each Service has its own role. IAS babu, kindly be reminded of the fact that one time success cannot be lifetime success, whether it is for IAS or anyone. Unless you come out of this, you will not be able to improve from yesterday and learn from the mistakes of the yesterday. IAS and other babus do leave the arrogance of onetime success. Try to succeed everyday in your jobs. That will be the greatest contribution to our nation. Serving Civil Servant.
ReplyDelete//do not escalate your personal hatred with each other as rivalry between the Services as such. //
Delete= who sees it that way? i don't (although anyone who uses a language like "mr. IAS babu" cannot surely be a bridge builder lol). why does every other service have to think the case for IAS is the case against all other services?
// Each Service has its own role. //
= agreed. one to administer, the rest to ensure efficient administration by delivering proper and accurate and timely information ...
// one time success cannot be lifetime success, whether it is for IAS or anyone. //
= of course. life is unfair, is it? all other services must also know this argument applies to every civil service: imagine a private corporate saying that to the IRS officer and let him squirm! so why do we have a permanent executive called the civil service? think man, think!
//IAS and other babus do leave the arrogance of onetime success. Try to succeed everyday in your jobs. That will be the greatest contribution to our nation. Serving Civil Servant.//
= this should be the mandate for all civil services. please don't make the mistake of assigning all responsibilities and duties to the IAS alone. we have at least 80 other ICSs u know, and they are supposed to have this mandate too ;) ...
This IAS babu mentioned that an IAS CAG unearthed coal scal and 2G scam. SO among all the IAS CAGs only one was famous and up to the mark. That means all other IAS CAGs are duds. Make other relevant officers from IAAS, ICAS, IRAS, IDAS, IRS as CAG then you will see a better CAG. And for your info more than Vinod Rai everybody knows his deputies from IAAS prepared those reports. Vinod Rai babu might not have even understood many parts of those reports atall. He might have been attracted by only the figure of loss as is the wont of every IAS babu.
ReplyDelete//SO among all the IAS CAGs only one was famous and up to the mark. //
Delete= on the contrary, no. if u look at all the departments/commissions where the posts are exclusively IAS posts - Cabinet Secretary, Election Commission, UPSC, CAG being the most prominent - u will see that the longer the IAS consistently dominates, the cleaner, more efficient these departments are ...
// And for your info more than Vinod Rai everybody knows his deputies from IAAS prepared those reports. //
= obviously! u just laid out how Indian bureaucracy is supposed to work! all the other services, being specialists, are supposed to bring in their expertise together so the IAS officer can make the final call on the matter given perspectives from different experts!
now u seem to have a clearer understanding of what public administration is all about ... perhaps 10years down the line u will ;)
Wow u should have mentioned that India won wars against Pakistan because of IAS and lost war against China because of Army, India is playing well in Cricket World Cup because of IAS, Sania & Saina are performing well because of IAS, dogs bark in the night because of IAS, hens lay eggs in India because of IAS, cattle clear their bowels because of IAS, Sachin owes his career to IAS, Newton's apple fell to ground because of IAS, Bill gates left college to start Windows because of IAS, Facebook was famous because of IAS, Neil Armstrong landed on moon because of IAS. Sun raises in the East because of IAS but sets because of politicians and non-IAS, moon revolves around the Sun because of IAS, Sun emits light because of IAS, etc. So IAS is god or god created himself on Earth in the form of IAS !!!!! Hilarious, funny, absurd, illogical, incomprehensible, silly, foolish, unreasonable, egotistic, self-obsessed, self-seeking, inward-looking, insensitive are the comments of this arrogant IAS babu. Damn you and your lobby. People are watching. We will throw you out like we did to the imperialistic British. Its a matter of time.
ReplyDelete//Wow u should have mentioned that India won wars against Pakistan because of IAS and lost war against China because of Army//
Delete= well u'd have said the opposite though, right? :P
// India is playing well in Cricket World Cup because of IAS, Sania & Saina are performing well because of IAS, dogs bark in the night because of IAS, hens lay eggs in India because of IAS, cattle clear their bowels because of IAS, Sachin owes his career to IAS, Newton's apple fell to ground because of IAS, Bill gates left college to start Windows because of IAS, Facebook was famous because of IAS, Neil Armstrong landed on moon because of IAS. Sun raises in the East because of IAS but sets because of politicians and non-IAS, moon revolves around the Sun because of IAS, Sun emits light because of IAS, etc.//
= well that's what u think isn't it? so u end up blaming the IAS for every mistake in the country from world cup losses to the army incompetency, didn't u? i invite u to read ur posts again :P
//Damn you and your lobby. People are watching//
= ah yes they are, and let them also think. i'm sure they will know better than you other services are specialist services and u cannot blame the IAS for the failure of specialists. people are not as foolish as u think u know; they won't be fooled by such platitudes like "imperialistic" or "babudom" or any such nonsense anymore ...
btw, why lie about it publicly while u know damn well u put ur first preference as IAS in all your attempts? so IAS is like the premier service for as long as u attempt, but suddenly the hated service when u exhaust them all and cudn't clear it? talk about double standards! :D
Few marks this side or that side in interview or mains decides the Service which one gets. Sometimes lower ranked person gets IAS and higher ranked person will end up in non-IAS service because of the reservation policy in India. Sometimes some persons prefer other Services over IAS. Then under these circumstances, how will you say that all IAS are better than all non-IAS. This argument of supremacy of IAS is faulty. Supremacy exists in your mind not on facts or substance. Its time this IAS shuts his mouth and stops meaningless arrogance and self-defeating support of the notion of supremacy of IAS. It will only do more harm to your IAS lobby.
ReplyDelete//Few marks this side or that side in interview or mains decides the Service which one gets.//
Delete= that's called life buddy. what do u think is the difference in merit between the gold, silver and bronze medallist? between the IITian who got civil engineering and the one who got software? between the scientist who got the Nobel and the one who missed out? between the inventor who made the bulb first and the one who made it second?
//Sometimes some persons prefer other Services over IAS.//
= sometimes yes, but most of the time no. we are not talking of exceptions here, but the rule, and the statistically significant rule is that an overwhelming majority of all applicants put IAS as first preferences, an overwhelming majority of toppers opt for IAS, and an overwhelming majority of people in other services continue to give the exam in the hope of getting the IAS. check the past results if u wish.
//This argument of supremacy of IAS is faulty. //
= supremacy is a hard thing to define and i prefer not to use that word, since the rest are not subjugates. on the contrary they are all equal - the IAS happens to be the first among equals that is all, just as the Prime Minister (also called first minister in some countries) is the first among equal ministers ...
and please, do not fool others: u probably exhausts all ur attempts giving the CSE again and again even after u became a specialist officer, in the hope of getting the IAS. even and especially those who argue for the parity of all services and privileges know it better than anyone else how the IAS as the generalist service is intrinsically different from all the other services ...
all services are important just as all ministries are important: it just so happens that all services are specialist services just as all ministries are specialized ministries - while the IAS is a generalist service just as the PMO is a generalist ministry ...
BoI requests every reader to use decent language while engaging in a debate and putting forward one's argument. Any comment that uses faulty language won't be approved.
ReplyDeletemay i suggest any ad hominem attack against any particular service may either be removed or edit to decency?
Deletefor example, a case in point:
//You IAS guys only know how to protect smugglers of forest produce, how to manipulate tribals, how to grab their lands and livelihoods to cosy up to your political bosses. You are a gangrene in the Indian administrative setup. //
//Hilarious, funny, absurd, illogical, incomprehensible, silly, foolish, unreasonable, egotistic, self-obsessed, self-seeking, inward-looking, insensitive are the comments of this arrogant IAS babu.//
= nowhere (except perhaps the Indian parliament!) will such a language be tolerated .. points (if any at all) can be made without such adjectives, and the frequent resort to such abuses can only mean the concerned has nothing to say except pass on his hatred and animosity ...
just a food for thought for the BoI Team :)
And this IAS babu used all expletives. Check his posts. He calls others scoundrels and made derogatory statements against other services. He talks about excesses by police and army and that IAS controls it. He says all other services are corrupt and etc. He should first control his mouth and then preach others.
Deletewell well, this is rich!!
Deletesomeone accuses u of something, and u defend urself, so u suddenly become the accuser? so what r u suggesting - that i should be a Jesus receiving all blows and philosophize, "they know not what they do"? u mistook me for a pacifist my friend! if u fire a shot, only expect retaliation!
Then don't complain Mr. IAS babu. Go ahead and retaliate like the imperialistic British. Dont give sermons here.
Deletelet me get this straight:
Deleteur effectively saying, "lemme keep hitting u and don't u dare hit back!"
this must qualify as the height of "imperialistic" arrogance :P
Hil
ReplyDeleteI am not Babu nor a fan of Gov. Services at all. I worked in private sector and earn my compensation based on my efforts. You babus are fighting between yourself who is superior ... bullshit.
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact if i have to rank the contribution i will place any entrepreneur creating a Job and asset for others at first place. But it is you who always take credit for all good deeds. let me put a story ... PM Jan Dhan yojna has become a big success and the credit is taken by politicians and babus. How can you forget it is because of IT companies (specially Infosys/TCS and iflex) you are able to take banking at door step to every poor. Had it not a core banking technology, had it not Infosys and TCS have put efforts in developing such solutions do you think you would be able to achieve even 1% what you are claiming now. And also all these things (solution development) done by IT companies pro actively with vision predicting status of Indian banking sector.
All you people need is fame and money. Off course we work for money as well but do it fair and square.
I must congratulate the IAS officer for his cogent and reasoned arguments on the raison d'etre of the I AS. I would encourage you to compile this into an article and publish in a major newspaper so that the misinformation spread by other services is corrected. You should also bring your thoughts to the attention of the PMO, where the IAS has a backer in the form of Modo. I am a recent graduate of IIT Delhi, and though the civil services are slowly losing their sheen, today, if there us one service that attracts the best, it's the IAS. I am also currently doing a fellowship with thegovernment and have interacted extensively with IAS officers, PSU guys and other services. Generally, There is a HUGE difference between IAS and the rest. of course there are exceptions but in terms of sheer probability, The I AS guys are confident in their abilities and are hence approachable. The other guys are all about showing how important they are in their pitiful feudalistic structures. The IAS officers are more professional and have greater cross understanding of issues and have greater independence to air their views. Unlike other services where the word of the boss is final, I AS officers know that they can courageously make their views known and the PMO/cabsec can back them up if they have a principled stand. If it's primacy is not maintained, you will have such luddites manning IAS posts as well. If you want the cream of the country to join governance, retain the IAS Must remain the top interface between the political executive and the machinery of governance.
ReplyDeletePlease look at the progress of the country. The potential of growth is very high, but, we are emerging as a nation where most of the poors live in the world. Our cities look like slums. If we want to achieve our potential, we need to come out of our internal fights -- among various cadres, civil services, states and centre etc. I believe efficient Civil Services and synergy among various services is very important, and to achieve that there is an urgent need to reform the entire bureaucratic system. There is need to auction the crucial posts of District Administrator, and other key posts with a target to achieve the desired goal.PM Modi with such a great mandate is the only one who has a capacity to bring such change. Hope he also does not get trapped.
ReplyDeleteOne only needs to read Orwell's Animal Farm to know who are the pigs in Indian babudom
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ReplyDelete