“simply cut, copy-pasted and signed by hundreds of young IAS officers”. Let’s reproduce excerpts of his article where he cites a particular letter written by an IAS.
“For eg. The above letter begins with the sentence ‘We are given to understand that the pay commission is planning to recommend equating IAS with all other services being recruited by the UPSC.....Nothing could be more demotivating than this for a young recruit into the service.’
The letter's author (which in this case is difficult to identify as all IAS officers cutting across cadres and batches have reproduced it almost verbatim) further elucidates the reason for this "demotivation" .
A list of these reasons:
1. Being young officers they are sent out to mofussil areas , far-flung corners of districts or Naxal infested regions .
2. Posting in areas with likelihood of communal tension ,natural calamity and extreme backwardness.
3. Personnel of similar vintage in other services beginning their careers in Tier 1 towns.
However what seems amusing is the way the letter blows hot and cold in the same breath. For instance, the author proclaims the feeling of pride and honour of getting such challenging work however expresses the same factors as de-motivating if he does not enjoy edge and superiority in terms of pay and empanelment over other services. He has conveniently forgotten that the government has invested heavily in the past and continues to do so in setting up heavy bureaucratic infrastructure in terms of Official Residence, Guards, House Helps, Police protection, paraphernalia and contingency and unaudited funds at disposal which is commensurate with the unique working environment of a particular post. Moreover such thankless approach belittles the courage and dutifulness of hundreds of other Government functionaries like police officers, Central Para military officials, Forest rangers, Army Officers not to speak of numerous NGOs and volunteers working without much state support and privileges in deep, interior areas where hardly any IAS officer would have set foot since 1947.”
The IRS writer further objects to the content of one letter written by a young IAS officer and questions the premise that “only IAS officers have the DNA of coordination”. The IAS officer in his letter said that he is strongly against any change in the relative pay structure of the IAS vis-a-vis any other service, suggesting that the edge for the IAS be further increased from the current two years to four years, in view of increasing need for coordination. The IRS writer reacts as follows:
“It is surprising that the signatory to the letter happens to be an IAS officer of 2-3 years service tenure and having no experience in coordinating with other Group A services at central level is seeking the edge to be increased from 2 to 4 years. It shows that the so called edge that has been maintained hitherto is artificial and serves only to satisfy egos of the Chosen Ones. The coordination is part and parcel of Group A officer's job and varies from assignment to assignment in different services, be it Police, Revenue, or Railways, etc. To claim that only IAS officers have the DNA of coordination which should be increased further is nothing but a hegemonious attitude displayed towards other Non-IAS services.”
For the entire write-up of the IRS officer, you can log into thinkingfingerwrites dot blogspot dot in.
very well written,
ReplyDeleteVery good assertion made by Abhishek Gautam... One should show courage against this obvious disparity being meted out against officers of allied services..
ReplyDeleteAbolishing the IAS will be great service to the nation as the same has been also suggested by Narayana murthy
ReplyDeleteNo, it will not be a great service to the nation. Things will soon start to disintegrate.
DeleteNarayana murthy is outdated now. Perhaps he abhors IAS because of his experience in setting up Infosys in 70-80s. Things are different now, very different.
IAS officers are known throughout India as arrogant, egoistic, corrupt, elitist, opportunistic and non-specialist.
DeleteThe ICS was brought in by the British so that they could run India for the British empire. This model was successful. It was because of Indian Civil Service, India was made poor.
India's output to world GDP from 32% (historic at its peak) was brought down to less than 2%.
Delete"IAS officers are known throughout India as arrogant, egoistic, corrupt, elitist, opportunistic and non-specialist." --- Classic example of prejudice and 'Grapes are sour'. Just like hardcore feminists say " All men are potential rapists!"
"The ICS was brought in by the British so that they could run India for the British empire. This model was successful. It was because of Indian Civil Service, India was made poor." --- The "maai-baap" status enjoyed by ICS (pre1947)/IAS ( of 50s,60s) are not enjoyed by present day recruits. Neither they behave like the earlier ones.
"India's output to world GDP from 32% (historic at its peak) was brought down to less than 2%." --- All because of IAS?? Nobody else to blame??
Your understanding of India's history is pretty weak. Do you even know why Subash Chandra Bose, who qualified for the ICS resigned from it on the first day of joining. His reason for resignation is self-explantory.
DeleteSecond, the zamindary system and revenue exploitation of farmers by revenue and district collectors (members who were all ICS during the British period) directly contributed to India becoming a beggar state.
Third, Verghese Kurien (Padma Bushan) and Narayana Murthy (Padma Bushan) have both earlier argued for abolition of IAS cadre as they are non specialist, arrogant and opportunistic. No wonder many IAS officer have been jailed I. 2G, coal and other major crimes in India.
"Your understanding of India's history is pretty weak." -- Ad Hominem! Sir, my understanding of history is pretty good. I am a well read person and can see "all sides" of history, NOT just "that history" people know/comfortable with.
Delete1st & 2nd Para reply : Yes. ICS officers were not so patriotic. They served British, not common Indian. So when ICS officers answered to call of duty, the 'Indian interests' were definitely harmed. Perhaps that’s why SC Bose left ICS.
But do you really think present day IAS are same as ICS (pre1947)? Why are you justifying both as same? Consider following:
1) ICS were British agent. IAS (of present day) are agents of a democratic welfare state.
2) Literacy rate of Indians in British rule is far lower than the present rate. So common people are more aware now. IAS (of present day) does not even enjoy the status of earlier IASs (of 60s,70s), not to talk of ICS days.
3) ICS were sons (NOT daughters) of elites in British Raj days. They hardly knew the plight of masses. Lot of IAS (of present day) are from humble background (Also --- Was there reservation for SC/ST/BCs in ICS?).
4) ICS's pimary function was revenue collection. Hence the term 'collector'. What are functions of a present day entry level IAS?
So arguments for abolishment of IAS by citing examples of ICS are futile.
"......directly contributed to India becoming a beggar state." --- Do you know who made India a beggar state? The British. ICS were just means of exploitation under the 'legal cloak'. You are indicted/blamed for killing somebody, NOT your gun/knife.
"....directly contributed to India becoming a beggar state." ------- Do you know who ensured that India REMAINS a beggar state? Ever heard of 'Nehruvian rate of growth'?? It is popularised, by the commies, as 'Hindu rate of growth'. Why Hindu? Why NOT something like ...umm...'secular'? India is habited by all faiths and not only Hindus, right? When you know 'this part of history', you will stop blaming ONLY ICS/IAS for ALL the ills of the country.
Reply to 3rd para : Verghese Kurien and Narayana Murthy are definitely worthy sons of 'Mother India'. They don't need pathetic awards like 'Padma'(from governments) to prove their calibre/talent ( I mentioned the awards, because you bracketed them to improve Murthy & Kurien's credibility). But do know why Kurien and Murthy hate IAS so much??
Please read 'Accidental India' by Shankar Aiyar.
Chapters 'The Milky Way' for Kurien and 'The Black Swan' for Murthy. They both dealt with pathetic bureaucracy of 50s,60s (Kurien) and 80s (Murthy) who (the IASs) had suffered from 'Hang-over of the past(British Raj)'.
"...No wonder many IAS officer have been jailed.....". Only IAS are jailed in this country?? IRS always tops the anti-corruption list of CBI. Did you know that?
P.S. : You can look at my other comments of this post/web page, if you haven't already.
“All organized Services be treated at par “
ReplyDelete---------------------------------------------------
The inter-Services animosity is turning nastier by the day.The following steps need be taken immediately to stop further heart-burnings :--
(a)Same initial pay-scales;
(b)Stop time-scale promotions in all Services;
(c) Performance-based promotions for the down-trodden and the elite services;
(d) Break silos for senior level appointments ie Director and above.
The best course of action would be to do away with all organised Services and provide for a single unified Service with different training modules depending on the nature of jobs assigned. The post of union Cab Sec should be rotated among different Services subject to fitness.
A K SAXENA (A retd civil servant)
http://www.aksaxena.co.in
The IRS officer says that police officers, Central Para military officials, Forest rangers, Army Officers, NGOs and volunteers work in deep, interior areas.
ReplyDeleteBut, have any one of them cleared UPSC Exam?
IAS officers are comparing only those who have cleared UPSC CSE. And since among those who cleared, only IAS live in not so good condition, they deserve better pay scale.
P.S. - I am not an IAS.
IPS have also cleared the UPSC exam and they also work in odd conditions .....
DeleteP.S - I am not an IPS
IPS may have some grievances that should be looked into.
DeleteBut the IRS people living in posh areas/cities, enjoying facilities in their best days (young). They are not attached to one state forever. They are not even AIS, only Central Service. Their claim is not justified.
Nobody remembers who got Bronze medal at the famous Usain Bolt race.
So friend once a gold medal winner should be declared permanent winner for next 30 years irrespective of future performance, in your view. What a weird logic.By this logic those getting IAS despite lower rank because of reservation should get lesser salary than general candidates getting other services on higher rank.Only self-certified great people can get such brilliant ideas.Our country is cause of ridicule in the developed world because of the hegomonistic attitude of the so called premier service.This has to end at the earliest.
DeleteBy your logic, a gold medal winner in a race should be declared a winner for next 30 years irrespective of future performance, integrity and competence.Then if people have to be paid as per their ranks in one exam,then the officers getting IAS despite lower ranks because of reservation will have to be paid lesser than the general candidates getting other services despite higher rank.Weird logic.
DeleteThe logic is "weird" !!
DeleteThen how come IPS are put at helm of CISF, BSF etc when people from their (BSF, CISF..... etc) ranks, who have better experience, could have been promoted ?? Is it not because they cleared some 'premier' exam 30 years earlier?? Why not from DANIPS??
The fact is nobody wants to forego their status, but just want others to do it. IPS thinks he is equal to IAS, but look down upon DANIPS. IRS thinks he is equal to IAS, but consider IAAS, IDAS inferior. Aren't all they from same exam? Just their ranks are different, isn't it?
Rank/hierarchy is indispensable in competitive exams. Just because of a single rank, a student may not get his desired stream/institute in IITJEE. His life is changed forever, not for 30 years. But he can not claim equality, just because they appeared in the same exam. Case is same for UPSC CSE.
"...irrespective of future performance, integrity and competence." ----- Non-performing, corrupt and incompetent officers are found not only in IAS. They are available, in large quantities, across the pools of IPS, IRS and all other services also.
Reservation issue : " those getting IAS despite lower rank because of reservation should get lesser salary than general candidates getting other services on higher rank" ---- That problem arises because of reservation. NOT because of IAS. One should protest against reservation, NOT against IAS hegemony -- to solve that.
@AnonymousNovember 10, 2015 at 10:46 PM
AND
@AnonymousNovember 11, 2015 at 12:40 PM
Neither of you (considering you are two different people) replied/argued the 1st and 2nd para of my comment at [November 10, 2015 at 8:05 PM]. You just saw the last line of Usain Bolt and bombarded verbal volley. One of you even made ad hominem arguments like "Only self-certified great people can get such brilliant ideas."
The fact is in such a diverse country as ours, IAS, a generalist service, has definitely NOT outlived its purpose. All the services are necessary, should not be compared. But when you compare, IAS is Primus inter pares.
An IPS/IRS is not an IAS. An IAS is an IAS. Period.
P.S. : Sorry for sexist pronouns. I never used 'her'.
Try to get an idea about the administrative system of other countries, where the generalists are generally at the lower end of pyramid and higher posts are held by specialists or experts.Hoewever in an underdeveloped country the generalist IAS with its feudal mindset will remain at the top.That is why IAS has developed a vested interest in continuing the outdated british system of governance to keep the country backward. So your argument may be valid in the present context.Nevertheless there is gradual change in the economy and days are not far off when our country will be a truly developed economy where experts,whether from private sector or organized services, will manage the affairs at the top instead of the so called steel frame.Please enjoy your superiority till then. Period.
DeleteTry to get an idea about the administrative system of other countries, where the generalists are generally at the lower end of pyramid and higher posts are held by specialists or experts.Hoewever in an underdeveloped country the generalist IAS with its feudal mindset will remain at the top.That is why IAS has developed a vested interest in continuing the outdated british system of governance to keep the country backward. So your argument may be valid in the present context.Nevertheless there is gradual change in the economy and days are not far off when our country will be a truly developed economy where experts,whether from private sector or organized services, will manage the affairs at the top instead of the so called steel frame.Please enjoy your superiority till then. Period.
Delete"Try to get an idea about the administrative system of other countries..." ----- Oh yes Sir/Madam, I have very good ideas about different bureaucratic/organisational structures across the world.
DeleteBut you partially gave the answer "...Hoewever in an underdeveloped country the generalist IAS....."
The other part of the answer is --- India is unimaginably, unmanageably diverse. This makes India unique. In Germany (they follow Separate Hierarcy system), all are Germans. In Pakistan (they follow Unified Hierarchy), all are muslim. In India, nobody is Indian. Somebody is Bihari, somebody is Tamil, and others are Naga, Gujarati. Even if some are Indian, others will say they are 'Bharatiya'. You got the point.
In such a situation, a generalist system is very much necessary.
"So your argument may be valid in the present context. Nevertheless there is gradual change in the economy and days are not far off when our country will be a truly developed economy...." ------ Of course my point is valid in present context. It SHALL BE in foreseeable future.
No matter what, India will NOT be a developed country even in next 50 years, it will still be 'developing' i.e. poor! You know why?
1)Population growth (Any body has guts to enforce vasectomy?)
2) Hostile neighbours (Religious -bangla, pak/ ideological - China)
3)Political system (every other day, a regional leader will hijack national agenda for parochial interests)
4)Diversity (much of country's resource is spent on 'maintaining' this diversity)
5)Reservation !!
"Please enjoy your superiority till then."------ Your?? I already said, I am not an IAS. You need not be an IAS to logically support IAS.
Mr. Supporter of IAS. You never know the power and status of an IRS. Come out in the open and show your face. An IRS too works in small towns and faces hardships right at the beginning of his/her career. There is hardly any infrastructure or staff. But, he has to handle 1000s of crores ( Yes, 1000s. Even you IAS commercial tax commissioner does not earn as much money to the government as a young IRS recruit does. There are many posts in IRS at entry level that no IAS officer can match!) So, stop mud slinging and mind your business. Every body has right to ask for better future. You dont have any right to deny it. You can at best argue for your betterment but not for others' failure.
Delete@AnonymousNovember 16, 2015 at 3:50 PM
Delete“You never know the power and status of an IRS.” ----- I fully acknowledge their contribution to our country; and know their power and status vis-a-vis other services. In fact you can see, if you look carefully, that I never said ‘unverified foul’ about IRS in any of my comments. I just supported the case of IAS. Is supporting IAS militates against the IRS? Is there any comment where I said things like ‘abolish IRS’ or ‘IRS have destroyed our country’?
“Come out in the open and show your face.” – I cant believe you can say that. I, atleast, have an account.
“Even you IAS commercial tax commissioner does not earn as much money to the government as a young IRS recruit does.” ------ If earning money is the ONLY thing that mattered to government, they would have hired professional goons. But, money is a very important thing to government, and that’s why I acknowledge the contribution of IRS.
“stop mud slinging and mind your business.” ---- I am getting bored of this accusation. If you READ carefully, you can know that it is ‘others’ who are mud-slinging and I am just replying without slinging mud.
“You can at best argue for your betterment but not for others' failure.” ------ That’s what I am trying to do. Arguing ‘FOR’ IAS does NOT mean arguing ‘AGAINST’ IRS, does it? But others here think it DOES!
JIS SHEESHE MAIN HUM APNE AAP KO DEKHTE HAIN YA DIKHAATE HAIN , KAHIN WOH MAILA NA HO JAYE --
ReplyDeleteIt is high time when every member of Civil Services and their respective associations need surgical introspection with regard to performances of their Services with aim to make it more useful and meaningful to society within the ambit of Constituion of India .
It seems IAS guys have lost the battle......hip hip hurray...CVC is from IRS,Air India CMD is from Railway services,........Time to abolish IAS as a service...this service has ruined the entire nation......Andhra CM has statred the drive to fill all plum posting with non-IAS officers...hip hip hurray....
ReplyDeleteMr X, an IAS aspirant, where r u absconding?Shame on you? In the era of specialisation, you r defending useless and obsolete generalist.....
ReplyDeleteMr.X is not eligible to comment on any civil servant. He seems to be here only to aggravate the relationship between IAS and other services. First, I do not understand one thing. The so called 'All India Service' nomenclature. IAS IPS and IFoS are known as All India Services because, they work for state government but can also work for centre for a short period on deputation. Where as other services work only for centre and may work for short period in state government on deputation. Since, IAS IPS and IFoS work for state and are controlled by centre, they are referred to as All India Services. It is not as if they provide superior services to the country. So, stop discriminating them based on faulty nomenclature. Central services work all over the country and are truely All Indian in nature.
DeleteMr X......Go and touch the feet of CM's all over the country as your senior Mr Pardeshi is doing in maharashtra. We are ready to take over development work from you and country will shine in our safe hands.IAS has ruined the entire nation.
DeleteHey Mr. Santosh, I have seen your comments on other posts of this blog. You hate IAS so much! Why sir? I know, hate is a powerful thing, much powerful than love. At this time, it reminds me of Anton Chekhov who said, "Love, friendship and respect do not unite people as much as a common hatred for something."
Delete".....where r u absconding?Shame on you?" ------- I was not absconding. Just couldnt reply for other reasons. Why same on me, sir?
"In the era of specialisation, you r defending useless and obsolete generalist....." ---------
Please read 'all' of my previous comments, very carefully. Now (considering you have read, carefully) you know that a generalist service is NOT 'useless' in INDIA.
"...obsolete generalist..." ------ Almost all people are incapable to shield themselves from the 'idea flux' from capitalists backed media houses/journalists that generalists are not necessary, only specialists are needed in this present era. Reason? All the 'lower level' developmental works are done by IAS ; and capitalists, driven by profit motives, do not want these 'developmental work experience' to interfere in policy making. If IAS, a generalist, is out of policy making, their (capitalists') agenda can be easily implemented. The only other hindrance being electoral arithmetic of the ruling party.
"Go and touch the feet of CM's all over the country...." Seriously, was this necessary? Is this the level of your arguments? All IAS officers are not same. If you want to homogenise a service by citing an aberration, things can boomerang you.
"country will shine in 'our' 'safe' hands....." ------
"Our" --- I can safely presume you are an IRS. That will also justify you hatred towards IAS.
"Safe" ---- Certified by whom? Norton? VeriSign? or Messiah of anti-corruption Arvind Kejriwal?
"We are ready to take over development work from you..." --- Then you are an IAS, not IRS.
“IAS has ruined the entire nation.” ----- “All men have destroyed the womenfolk. If we can destroy all men, we women can live blissfully forever in this world. The world does not need men!”
P.S. : Mr. Santosh, If you are really an IRS, as I presumed, please behave like one and give some proper arguments for ‘why IAS should be abolished’, which are driven by rationale, not hatred/emotion. You cracked UPSC, didn’t you? And also missed IAS ‘just’ by few ranks? So, you must be talented/ knowledgeable. Please cajole me into the belief that ‘yes, IAS officers are detrimental to the growth of our country’. Believe me; I am not as rigid as you in front of a strong persuader.
If you are NOT an IRS, never mind!
@Anonymous November 18, 2015 at 3:27 AM
Delete“Mr.X is not eligible to comment on any civil servant.” ----------Why? Because I am not a civil servant? Are you an elite? And you berate IAS for trying to be elitist? What is the ‘eligibility’?
If I am not wrong, my freedom to comment(speech) is guaranteed by our constitution ! (And of course, the blog admin(s)!!!)
“He seems to be here only to aggravate the relationship between IAS and other services.”------Please read the penultimate para of my comment@ November 10, 2015 at 8:05 PM . I wrote “All the services are necessary, should not be compared.” Actually the thing is other way round. Most of the comments here are trying to “aggravate the relationship between IAS and other services” by constantly denigrating the IAS. Please read ALL the comments again. I never said ‘unverified’ foul about IRS.
“The so called 'All India Service' nomenclature.” --- Yes, you are right. AIS is a nomenclature. But there is a difference with Central Services. AIS has a bearing on federal structure on our country.
“It is not as if they provide superior services to the country.” ---- I didn’t mention AIS in the context of ‘superior services’ in my comment @November 10, 2015 at 8:05 PM. I just said that in the context that most (not all) AIS people are confined to underdeveloped areas in their 1st decade of career and thus misses the opportunity to enjoy their best days. This is not so in case of most (not all) IRS. Hope you got it. :)
Every service is selfish to the core. Every one wants themselves to be projected as the supreme. What the IAS is doing for Group-A services, the same thing Group-A services are doing to their colleagues. These officers classify themselves as Direct Recruits and don't want their fellow officers to be promoted to Group-A posts. Even if they are promoted to Group-A, they are posted in side lined posts. These so called Direct Recruits have no respect for their colleagues of the age of their parents and do not let them progress. For example, I can very well relate to promotee IRS officers as I know one of them very well. The DRs do not want their colleague ITOs to be promoted to Group-A as that will some how hurt the ego of DRs. But, the logc here is promotee officers(lucky ones) retire as Additional Commissioners and never rise to higher level. So, there is going to be no competition between DRs and promotee officers during consideration for promotion as officers get promotion upto level of Addl.Cit in a timely manner. So, it does not hamper the chances of these DRs. Even then, these DRs do not want others to progress. They consider themselves as Gods. Only God can save such a selfish country.
ReplyDelete